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By Kuppaaja
#521619
I like this idea. I might even log in during the week if this happens :shock:.

There are some key things that are needed for a new idea to work out:

a) it doesn't require a new bot (and especially coding) or altering a lot of settings (not an issue here)
b) it is not too far from the current EG playstyle (not an issue here)
c) it'll be tested properly instead of ignored (not done yet)

As a) & b) are true now you only have to make c) happen.
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By prozaker
#521622
why do ideas need to be tested on the main arena? just setup a test arena with what you want to test, and at the end of a flag game just tell everyone to ?go #testarena to get prizes.

Trying things in the main arena is what killed any steam pop we could have had.
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By Lee
#521625
Azela wrote:it will require coding to do this:
e) pubbot gets a small tweak, so every x amount of time it will announce how much timer is left on flagcarrier and where he is.
It IS a long way from how we currently flag. I could mention all the dissimilarities if you need to me to. However, I still think it's worth trying out as an event.

I think it requires less tactical ability than regular flagging due to action being based in one base instead of two, where players can be exchanged from attack/def at strategic moments etc. It's more straightforward, like a baseduel in that respect. We just need to make it beneficial for flag carriers to head into bases rather than run around warping.

It could be implemented in pub, as a simpler way of flagging that even newbs can understand. But I'm not at all convinced atm that this could replace flagging in the league system.

I'm willing to help test it, just contact me when needed.
It is definitely a big step, but not as big as turf-style flagging, so i think as the key elements will be still there: a carried flag, different bases and same shipsettings as always, it will not be as dramatically different.
Problem with trying out as an event is that some things are designed to work as events, main purpose of this idea is though that it promotes one game right after another, eliminating the 2+ hour waiting period, which currently happens in eg pub. We can certainly test it as an event to tweak the gameplay, but we will never understand if it would work unless its put into live environment.

As for league system, i do believe that if the pub is using this type of flagging at least the EGFL style league, which is there for natural squads of eg should also have same format of flagging. I do belive we need to keep the old flagging as well as baseduel around as well, at least for leagues, they are fun formats on their own and i do not see any reason why they should be neglected.

And yes, for this to work it certainly needs some development, but definitely less then the turf idea.
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By Lee
#521626
prozaker wrote:why do ideas need to be tested on the main arena? just setup a test arena with what you want to test, and at the end of a flag game just tell everyone to ?go #testarena to get prizes.

Trying things in the main arena is what killed any steam pop we could have had.
Testing a potential change for pub is only possible in pub. We can surely see that settings are alright and gameplay itself is fun, but final test needs to be where it will theoretically run in the future.
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By Lee
#521632
Azela wrote:Also, if it really is true that staff are not going to code for us and changing settings is the only way we can implement change, then this might be the best solution we've heard so far. But I've just thought of a problem, which is timer not resetting with kills. Every game will be a maximum of 15 mins long. Can you really have a meaningful flagging game that only lasts 15 minutes? What if half of that time is spent in center? What if the basing aspect of the game is reduced to only a few minutes at the most? I think this point needs to be discussed more in terms of pros and cons for having a 15 min game, every game.
Its only 15 minute game if noone manages to kill the person, if you kill, timer will reset and like i stated before, what this timer will be is really hard to estimate, it could be also 20 or 30 minutes.
By Docket
#521636
This is a great idea and I would like to see it tested. We need to make a bot for this though. Toothrot or cycad will have to program a bot to make this work in order for setting changes to take place before and after the game. I will get in touch with Toothrot and Lee to see what will be needed.
By Lacoste
#521645
H4B wrote:I think neuted flag should be a tk neut so u cant just neut everytime and get the flag back.
aewsome idea..my god..why we didnt take of that before...genious h4b rofl..or we all very dumb..no1 ever came up with that idea in last 20 years? would have been a real thing in the balance of neuting or trying to doublekill...wow..great idea
By Lacoste
#521647
Azela wrote:Perhaps increase ball carry time to help enemy anchors stay alive. But I wouldn't suggest making bases easier to take because we want to give flaggers a good reason to use bases instead of flying around center and warping. The reason I think most games would end in 15 mins is because it gives the team who finds flag first a big advantage. Especially if you throw in the possibility of 3rd freqs where the attacking team may have to endure flanks too. A variable flag carry time would be ideal, where the amount of time required for a drop changes depending on population, but that would require coding.

So my suggestions so far:

1) Make a center area which isn't easy to run in.
2) Don't make bases easier to take, make them appealing to flag carriers.
3) Increase ball carry time.
4) Have pub day during Mon-Fri and allow multiple freqs on weekends.
5) Reintroduce variable base sizes. We already have a bot for that, we just need bases with doors in.
6) Allow flag carriers to be viewable on radar like ball carriers are.
7) Increase antiwarp radius, it doesn't currently fill the extent of the x-radar box.

And I know this has nothing to do with your idea but I would really love it if staff FINALLY REDUCED SAFETY TIMER TO SOMETHING REASONABLE LIKE 5 MINS OR LESS.
i agreee with azela..5 mins or less is more then enoughif u afk u unevening teams..make it 2-3 mins...5 mins max

6) Allow flag carriers to be viewable on radar like ball carriers are.

you made me doubt..i just tried it..without x u cant see the ball carrier on ur radar...or u meant on ALt radar

azela for sysop kty
By Medvac
#521675
It's a known fact that peeps are afraid of change,and as soon as one makes a suggestion or a criticism,your under attack.
Fear and the power of control thru certain players make progress difficult for the zone.Every online game has these problems,and the violent aspect of the killing makes it worse.
This why no one wants to speak out.
I applaud you Lee for standing up for your ideas,and hope peeps are willing to listen.

I realize alot of hard work goes into the code,bot,and servers,but minor changes like Lee suggests shouldn't be rejected so quickly.
My knowledge of the EG structure is very limited,but it's obvious there's a small glitch somewhere in the basic flow of pub.
The flow of play is only organized when an experienced player leads.No one likes a simple game and F7 with macros,anti,etc is easy.Finding flags is easier with the bot %red,but without organization its a mess.
This suggests the need for more chatter on what and how to smooth out pubs focus on more ideas,but it seems things are
simmering.

I hope it all works out.

Thanks
By Akbar
#521692
Hey, this sounds like a neat idea and I'd probably try it out. Thanks, Lee, for suggesting it and sticking around to advocate for your idea. Thanks also to Docket for hopefully facilitating the process of making this idea into a real thing. Going through this thread, what struck me was how off-base (lols) I think some of you are in terms of diagnosing the problems of the zone over the past ten years or so. I say this with the caveat that I haven't been around for the past five, and have had to kind of fill in the blanks on my own.

The zone (and game) seems to have largely stagnated because of the unattractiveness/inaccessibility of the game and the growing-old of its playerbase without replacement. Now, the first and second parts are obviously related but I just don't think you can gloss over the point that there aren't serious systemic and institutional difficulties holding EG and SS back.

If you want this zone to stick around, you can't appeal to the past. Let's be honest. You're gonna have to pretty much be content with the playerbase you do have. Optimal, when you say things like "squads are motivated by points, have squads and the fight for points will become actgive again, like before egdl" (sic), I can't help but be skeptical. Squads used to exist and be active because the zone had stakes -- people cared about winning points and resets and squad drama. Many of the players were also teenagers with nothing better to do, which I think is also related. Now that the playerbase is older and squads (at least right now) don't have anything to offer, why do you think pub as it is will be active? I used to relish squad matches and playing big pub games when I was a shitty teenager. I'm 26 now and SS is just not that important. How are you going to try to sell the game so players (whether new or old) get more active?

I, and some other older players, came back for EGDL mainly because of the Steam email. But the zone is not very interesting and baseduel gets boring real fast. I don't know how long I'll stick around, but I'm guessing not long. I was hoping EG would see an influx of new players from Steam but it clearly hasn't happened, and I don't think SS in general has gotten much from Steam seeing as how TW and HS are also low on population again. If a new gameplay proposal can give just a bit more replay value, it's worth trying. But you have to be realistic that you're not going to see the days of 200+ active players online anymore. You won't see multiple pubs with full games. The past isn't coming back.

Now to my thoughts on gameplay, what makes EG fun and different from the other major zones is not its maps or even its CTF playstyle. It's the a mixture of the shipsettings and the use of its maps and bases to promote fast, reaction-based play. This is the same way that TW and SVS are forcibly deliberate because of the slow ships and focus on aiming and maneuvering -- the shipsettings dictate the gameplay. EG is addictive because of the die-kill-die-repeat mechanics and the speed at which its played. Further, all ships are interesting and have access to specials and abilities. That's pretty different compared to many other zones. DSB would be somewhere in between. If Lee's (or anyone else's) proposal keeps the shipsettings more or less the same in spirit, it's still EG.
By devy
#521705
I like Lee's idea, it just requires a few changes in the settings and is therefore easy to test.
I think it's especially good for low pop weekday matches, on weekends we could play with the current settings.
We should try this for 2-3 weekdays and see how it works. If not...well, at least we tried something out, which is still better than endless theoretical discussions going on for years.
By minister
#521711
i like the 1 flag idea sounds fun, while we're at it can we plz upgrade the BD bot after all these years so games don't end every time someone specs or has to leave and someone can sub in.......and change the ELO system
By H0ST
#521737
Well enough talking, let's materialize it now before this thread dies like any other suggestions threads.

Lee how is the discussion with Docket going and what are the next step of development and implementation. Let us know the timeline and any assistance you need such as coders, mappers etc and assemble the team right away. I'm sure there's plenty who is willing to help.
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By Lee
#521738
H0ST wrote:Well enough talking, let's materialize it now before this thread dies like any other suggestions threads.

Lee how is the discussion with Docket going and what are the next step of development and implementation. Let us know the timeline and any assistance you need such as coders, mappers etc and assemble the team right away. I'm sure there's plenty who is willing to help.
Hey!

Things are moving pretty fast, there are also some announcements coming up in near days regarding this. Alot of stuff overall is going on currently in backround for EG, expect zone owners to announce a few things in upcoming weeks.
This idea is raw in the sense that many things can go wrong, which are hard to imagine at the moment, in addition i have several ideas in how to develop this further. FOr example to increase squad competitiveness to introduce "private days" to pub, which will make all pub freq max size to 1, while private freqs can go up to 10 or 12. In addition i think we can take pub wins (not jackpot) into consideration for some league system as well, so that squads can gain points while being successful in pub as well as in pickups.
I have heard there are at least 2 squads building silently in the backround, so i really hope we dont do another draft and blow it away, or then host a hybrid league, which has both real squads and draft-formed squads in.
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By Lee
#521740
Azela wrote:Real squads, built in the traditional way, are a relic of EG's past. It can't and won't happen any more. You might get one or two if you're lucky and they will probably dissolve quickly anyway. It's time to actually come to your senses and realize that things have to be done differently if we want to keep squad communities diverse and alive.

The league system I am working on right now (coding an auto-market at the moment) is designed to build squads and keep them alive and active. You shouldn't need me to tell you how important that is.

Eel has agreed to remake Grid using this system. The Watch seems to be on the edge of death before a league has even taken place, with Laco asking for squad dissolve matches. And Viper (smoking blue) doesn't strike me as being a solid prospect. When SB realizes the reality of playing with weak players, he will most likely rage quit in short order.

As for "things are moving pretty fast", I can tell your for sure that they're not. If I was a Sysop in this zone Lee's idea would have already been tested by now. The setting changes required to make this happen can be cobbled together in a matter of minutes. Anyone telling you otherwise is a liar and a chronic procrastinator.
FOr example to increase squad competitiveness to introduce "private days" to pub, which will make all pub freq max size to 1, while private freqs can go up to 10 or 12.
I know what you're trying to achieve by doing this. You want full freqs competing without being encumbered by frayers who refuse to help the team. The problem with this method will always be how players select which priv to join. Vets will generally play on the freq which has the most vets and you'll end up getting lopsided games. It's certainly worth a try though.
i think there are many things that we take as granted for now (for example the fact that real squads cannot exist) without really digging into the reasons why is it so.
Real squads have not been supported by EG in any way for last 5 years, all the actions made by staff (overhosting draft leagues, not doing anything to make pub more competitive, trying to kill baseduel etc) have been to destroy that element of zone.
As you said, it is not difficult to make a real squad, its difficult to keep it going, because there is absolutely 0 things to do for those squads, even leagues are not hosted for them anymore, so really, whats the point.
But saying its a relic of the past is not true imho. If u make a league system and activities for real squads, they will last.
Like i have stated many times, generating a database of EG players, giving them some values (aka transfermarkt) and making a longlasting system is a great idea. Even using draft to make some squads is great, there are plenty of squadless people around who get drafted that way. For spring league, the last final squad would have been also more or less made from people who had not been recruited manually before, but draft has 2 big flaws, you cannot get all the players you want, which will make you not satisfied with your squad and secondly for last at least 5 rounds you get people, who otherwise would have no chance of joining your squad or get any gametime, unless people dont show up (as you dont use vps in game).
So what i am suggesting is to have a hybrid generation of squads, allow real squads in (with same limits as the regular, for example 20 players per squad or smth), but also make player signups separately and host draft for those players who havent been recruited.

As for this going fast, i mean going fast in EG sense, not overall sense.
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By Lee
#521742
Azela wrote:It's true that you can't get every player you want in a draft. But it's also true that you can't get every player you want by recruiting either. Hell, I'd love to have Autopilot, Bacon, Ursa, King, Trance, Bombed etc thank you very much. But it's not going to happen. Either way, you don't really get exactly who you want. But having led a squad in EGDL for a few times, I have made new buddies and felt a strong sense of pride with every squad I've built. All you have to do is look at real world sports where teams simply can't acquire every player they want, but that doesn't stop a strong team spirit and rivalries from forming.

With regards to low vp players not having a chance to play, the very same would be true in a standard EGFL league. If you can play your best team, then why would the weaker players get a chance? They get a chance the same why we did, by working our way up the ranks, and taking the opportunity to shine when it was offered. I see no flaws here, and if there are flaws then surely they exist in both EGFL and my league equally.

I disagree with letting existing squads into this league because I want to start each squad off on an even footing. That way, if any squad does eventually become stronger, they will have earned it. No longer will power be acquired by virtue of who you're friends with. Success will be earned, and not simply recruited.

Anyway, we're going off topic.
I dont mean get every top player in eg and make a supersquad, i mean that there is core group of players, lets take for example trespass or grid, who have a history together. I remember being GM in some draft league where i really wanted knitex in my team, he was my first pick and someone just got him from under my nose. Lets say eel takes part in this league and someone drafts aristocracy from under his nose, or aelderon, or omega red or any other player who have historical ties with Grid. The players will be not happy, eel will be not happy and its not a good start when u consider this draft is suppose to "launch" new real squads.

Yes indeed u bond with some players in EGDL leagues, but its nothing compared to historical bonds.

As for comparison of real teams in the world, the most successful of them have always had a core set of players who have grown together in youth teams and eventually made the backbone of the team and of course over the course of time other top players have been added. So real squads in EG have always been much closer to real teams in sports rather than egdl.
Low and midtier players have always been in low and midtier squads in egfl and gotten much more gametime compared to being on bench. SUre they lose games and often dissolve, but they at least get a chance. Almost all vets of today have been newbies in some newbiesquad at some point, its part of natural development.

As you stated yourself, you plan on keeping things balanced with some roster rules, you can apply those rules to real squads as well. If u want to use values for players, you can set a max value and if some real squad enters the league, they need to take that into consideration.

As for the success will be earned, i still think its a horrible idea, losing itself is demoralizing and winning is motivating, why adding some extra thing into it is beneficial, i dont understand.

And yes its off topic, but there are too many topics currently in eg forums discussing similar issues.
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By Lee
#521744
Azela wrote:New cores will be built, it will just take time to develop.

If you give squads a max VP, earning VP in mid-week games will be pointless. What else would motivate squads to play mid-week games? And if you set the VP cap very high then you're back to the problem of having stacked squads.

Earning success is a horrible idea? Well, I don't really know what to say then. We just have a completely different opinion.
Like i have stated, make all games equal, no matter if its mid-week or weekend. Have a common table as eel is hosting egbdl anyways, the best timeslots during weekends will be taken. I have begged for similar system as in tw for years and years, now when people seem to be finally motivated, why not invent the bicycle again, but just use logic that has proven to be working.
http://twd.subspace.tw/ladders
If there is competition, people will be ALWAYS motivated to win. If you announce that only top 4 squads make it to final playoffs or playoff round or whatever, while more squads can take part of main season, there you go, you have motivation.
I remember playing in last year twd and there were constant games going all week long, as both top, mid-tier and low-tier squads tried to gain elo to make it among the elite.
We have also hosted similar league a while ago, and using ELO was not an issue really, most of squads adapted to it, its just a bitch to calculate manually, but well what can you do.

Honestly, you do not need to motivate people to win, make league interesting enough and people will play. Saying that, i really think hosting 2 simultaneous leagues with 2 different squadbases is a very bad idea, you should merge your idea with eel, just make bd/flagging as 2 different parts of league (you can also want to include egl, but i doubt many ppl would play it), have a 1 month or 2 month main season and allow top 4 squads in both formats to playoffs.
Ez u have a nice and fun league.
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By Lee
#521747
Azela wrote:I'd rather not copy off TW, and turning VP into a currency opens up way more possibilities. We could offer VP as prizes for squads who earn most points in a reset, making pub more relevant. We can let squads buy new roster slots, create their own unique arenas for home/away games. Using ELO just doesn't excite me at all. Also, there's the problem of losing ELO. If you're a weak squad, what motivation do you have to play if it could damage your position. If losing a game means you receive 0 VP, it wouldn't be such a disaster.

I do get your point though, if it works in TW it can work in EG, but I just think the VP system gives us more flexibility for future development and motivates squads to play even more.

The last point about TW is that they have a bot to handle those games. Stats get automatically passed to the database. We'd need to manually handle all of that. Manually calculating ELO can be a pain in the ass, I've done it before.
Copying something that works is not bad. Look at the success-story of Samsung for example. I understand why you push this VP idea, but in realtiy what will happen, is that it will even further make the difference between good squads and bad squads bigger. One main reason egdl for last 5 years has been more fun then egfl is because squads are more equally balanced. It is like that, because of the VP rules in game and draft as well.
If u plan on doing the draft, i dont see how in all the other actions you actually go to opposite direction. There are plenty of leagues where the weaker teams are helped out (for example in North American leagues worst team get best draft options). With your idea the gap would just increase. Instead of losing to nme, u also give nme opportunity to become stronger. I just dont see the reasoning behind this. There are far easier ways of making squads play during week.

As for ELO, its actually favoring weak squads, at some point they dont really lose much at all if they lose, but if they win, gains will be massive. But i totally agree that counting it manually is a bitch, ive also done it and it takes way too much time and is bound to have errors.
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By Lee
#521750
Azela wrote:In mid week games the weaker teams can choose who to play against. That way they have a good opportunity to earn enough VP to keep them on an even footing with the stronger teams. I think it's actually a very fair and balanced way of running a league, which is far superior to how we usually do things in EGFL.

Just to further my point about ELO. A weaker team could just refrain from playing, and wait for the other weak teams to lose their ELO instead. That's why I see this method as being less motivating.
Lol dont you think you are sounding a bit too idealistic here? You really think there are enough people online for each squad during week, so that people can choose who to play? 3 years ago i hosted egal, where we had weekly games for BASEDUEL. Thats 4v4 gameplay. Think only 5 squads managed to fill the rule of having minimum 3 games per week. And thats 3 years ago, when activity was much higher. Last egdl had teams noshowing on weekend scheduled times. Eels squad was one of the most active one during last league and i dont really recall having 8 players online simultaneously during weekdays. Maybe with possibility to play people will come online more often and maybe after euro time its better, but i have huge doubts about this.
As for that ELO thing, i seriously doubt it will happen, its not like there are plenty of options in EG to play during week, if u actually have another squad ready to go, you go and play lol...
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By Lee
#521753
Azela wrote:
Lee wrote:
Azela wrote:In mid week games the weaker teams can choose who to play against. That way they have a good opportunity to earn enough VP to keep them on an even footing with the stronger teams. I think it's actually a very fair and balanced way of running a league, which is far superior to how we usually do things in EGFL.

Just to further my point about ELO. A weaker team could just refrain from playing, and wait for the other weak teams to lose their ELO instead. That's why I see this method as being less motivating.
Lol dont you think you are sounding a bit too idealistic here? You really think there are enough people online for each squad during week, so that people can choose who to play? 3 years ago i hosted egal, where we had weekly games for BASEDUEL. Thats 4v4 gameplay. Think only 5 squads managed to fill the rule of having minimum 3 games per week. And thats 3 years ago, when activity was much higher. Last egdl had teams noshowing on weekend scheduled times. Eels squad was one of the most active one during last league and i dont really recall having 8 players online simultaneously during weekdays. Maybe with possibility to play people will come online more often and maybe after euro time its better, but i have huge doubts about this.
As for that ELO thing, i seriously doubt it will happen, its not like there are plenty of options in EG to play during week, if u actually have another squad ready to go, you go and play lol...
Right now we don't have enough activity to be seeing numerous mid-week games. That is really the problem which I'm trying to resolve by encouraging a culture of mid-week games. Frankly, players don't really have a reason to show up during the week, so I'm rather hoping that they will, given the motivation of earning VP for their squads. You're quite right to say that at first mid-week games would be few and far between, but I think we could see a gradual improvement if players have a reason to login and that would be great for the zone and well worth a try.
Yes and this brings me to why i proposed this new style of flagging. Its all related, if pub wouldnt suck so much, there would be more activity during week and more people naturally online all the time. If gameplay would support fun action also with low pop numbers, it would grow much faster then it does now and more people = more competition = more fun = success!
Thats why i have a feeling that we should start fixing things from right direction and having regular flagging midweek is just not reasonable at this stage of zone, its even hard for baseduel, but much more realistic.
So my suggestion is not to have 2 separate leagues, but 1, that contains both formats. If u want to promote creation of new squads via draft and some squadleaders have agreed, well fine, we can try. I would also definitely try to test the 1-flag flagging and add it to the mix. Maybe something new will get some attention, but i still think that giving extra benefits for squads to win is not needed and just makes the difference between squads bigger then it normally would in egfl.
If idea is to start from equal grounds and having a draft, i do not see reasoning in trying to make the gap between good and bad squads as big as possible during league. Should be other way round, weaker teams should get more help at the end of leagues, so maybe they will not drop out.
For example monthly drafts, where teams in bottom of table get first pick for FA draft or smth
By H4B
#521754
I feel Lee's format of 1-flag flagging could very well be the answer for the reasons of EG downfall. Imo Azelas design of different league system won't alone be the answer for the problem that there is nothing to do in EG during mid-week and thinking that just the VP bonuses from midweek games would encourage people to be more active and give a reason to log in and play just isn't enough because its just the same old shit with a twist in the backround. With Lee's 1-flag flagging style there would be something new that people actually would want to test out. Im sure it would give a boost in players(which is crucial for midweek gaming to happen) for the starting weeks if it is as fun as it sounds and that way hook up players to the game again and by mixing Azelas league system to Lee's new flagging there would be even more depth to what to play for. This could be something we are looking for the long term answer. Lets solve the fundamental issue and not just the symptoms with combining these ideas!

Hopefully I make sense.
By H4B
#521755
Also the problem with the music in 1-flag flagging could be solved with once the flag timer reaches for example 240s the victory music starts rather than listening to it for whole flag timer (15-30mins).
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By Wormhole-Surfer
#521757
H4B wrote:Also the problem with the music in 1-flag flagging could be solved with once the flag timer reaches for example 240s the victory music starts rather than listening to it for whole flag timer (15-30mins).
server.cfg:
Misc:VictoryMusic:0:0:1:Whether the zone plays victory music or not.

^ or staff could just turn it off, since the bot will be notifying players of time left before drop anyway.
By DaZZ!
#521758
H4B wrote:Also the problem with the music in 1-flag flagging could be solved with once the flag timer reaches for example 240s the victory music starts rather than listening to it for whole flag timer (15-30mins).

Image
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By Lee
#521766
Azela wrote:I'm more than happy for you to run a regular EGFL with your 1 flag idea. You might have to run the league yourself though and new rules will have to be made for it. If I were you I'd open sign ups pretty early to give squads a chance to form. Good luck, I really hope it works out for the benefit of the zone. You can tell EEL/LV from me that I'm more than happy for you to run your idea instead and I'll probably take part in some capacity. I won't be squad leading though.
Lol, i have no time to host any leagues, last spring taught me a lesson on that, also hosting oldschool egfl makes no sense atm.
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By Lee
#521768
Azela wrote:
Lee wrote:
Azela wrote:I'm more than happy for you to run a regular EGFL with your 1 flag idea. You might have to run the league yourself though and new rules will have to be made for it. If I were you I'd open sign ups pretty early to give squads a chance to form. Good luck, I really hope it works out for the benefit of the zone. You can tell EEL/LV from me that I'm more than happy for you to run your idea instead and I'll probably take part in some capacity. I won't be squad leading though.
Lol, i have no time to host any leagues, last spring taught me a lesson on that, also hosting oldschool egfl makes no sense atm.
What do u want to do then, I don't really care as long as it results in higher activity and permanent squads. My league structure + your 1 flag idea? I'm open to ideas.
k lets close this discussion and talk in game
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