SSCU Extreme Games

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Extreme Games Draft League 2014.
Congrats to Snake on their victory!
By lv
#516462
I would like to hear feedback from the GMs and the Caps that participated in this process. What I would like to know is:

Did it seem more fair than the forum system?

Was it easy to understand?

How would you feel about this taking the place of FA Market on the forum?

How do you feel about experimenting with different FA Market formats for EGBDL Draft league (Roulette, Tryo's Blind Auction)?



Add any other comments you feel are relevant.. Please no trolling. I know what I did with roulette was unorthodoxed but, it seem the forum system has it's issues, as all systems will. If you all hate these ideas for the most part... I will just return to the forum system.

P.S. I have asked Tryo in a ?message write up his "Blind Auction" format on the EGBDL Forum... We'll see what he comes up with. So I know you can't really comment on that idea yet.

Please no trolling...
By PAT
#516463
No it was not more fair. It was completely random and it should take somewhat some skills and thought process for a GM to make it competitive.

It was not easy to understand and I had no clue what was going on whole time. Your reasoning for this was because 3 gm's couldn't show wednesday to the draft but 3 or more GM's couldn't show saturday to this shit either.

I would never participate in another league again if this is the new FA Market system.

I prefer it to stay the same, the way it has worked 100% fine for the last 10 years.
By lv
#516465
PAT wrote:
It was not easy to understand and I had no clue what was going on whole time. Your reasoning for this was because 3 gm's couldn't show wednesday to the draft but 3 or more GM's couldn't show saturday to this shit either.

Actually, my reasoning for this is because the GMs, other than you, don't like the current system. They all felt it was unfair, so I thought it was a good idea to try something new with the last FA signups. I know you feel like I screwed you.. because you keep saying you would have 100% won Ursa, if that is true, then how in fact is the current system fair?
By PAT
#516467
I'm a better GM than the rest of the gm's. If they had timed it right then they would have just as fair as a shot as I did. Your shitty idea was 1000% luck and randomness.
User avatar
By Lee
#516491
Ive been saying it for a few years already that the FA draft on forums is unfair and much better solution is to
a) shorten the deadline for FA agents to sign to 2 weeks
b) after 2 weeks gather all the FA agents, give them VPS and host a secondary draft in reverse order of original

Sounds pretty straightforward and fair. Team VPs only come into play after the draft (they can be of course adjusted depending on overall vps of the league). If team has overdrafted, they need to trade them off or face punishment (which always has been opposing team being able to bench one of the players per vp over the limit).

This roulette thing is even more ridiculous than adjusting your computer clock to forum one and making millions of test bids, which often comes down to who actually lives closest to the server where the forum is hosted and gets the bid.
By Hydrange
#516529
Did it seem more fair than the forum system?
Not really fair...it was based mostly on luck.

Was it easy to understand?
Yes (but took too long to set up)

How would you feel about this taking the place of FA Market on the forum?
Never again.

How do you feel about experimenting with different FA Market formats for EGBDL Draft league (Roulette, Tryo's Blind Auction)?
I'm down to experiment to find the one that works, but FA market seem to be working fine.
User avatar
By Lee
#516532
Azela wrote:perhaps the fairest way would be to allow GMs to bid more than 9vp.
unfortunately not, GMs are big enough assholes to just overbid on players in order to not let opponents get them, which ultimately hurts the players most.
By Tryo
#516534
You need either a blind auction or to have the players entering FA rated a vp value and do some sort of draft for them. Otherwise as others say it becomes who bids first while adjusting their clocks to forums. It also hurts the players who get inflated vp value due to GMs having vps to spend and playing keep away. Inversely when no one has vps good players can go cheap which hurts the league as well since it potentially hurts those who drafted well.
By PAT
#516536
You mean like omega and eel who bid 9 on muggy and cust right? Cause Combo and King are correctly rated imo.
By PAT
#516537
Lee wrote: b) after 2 weeks gather all the FA agents, give them VPS and host a secondary draft in reverse order of original
By Wagon
#516539
PAT wrote:
Lee wrote: b) after 2 weeks gather all the FA agents, give them VPS and host a secondary draft in reverse order of original
what about the 3rd or 4th draft in season ? For a 6 team league the first and last to bid will get an advantage (1 week a crappy player the next one the best available) while number 3-4 in draft will always get "crap" pick just like last egdl , don't you remember ?
By PAT
#516542
Yeah true, maybe.... every week a new person behind will move up in the rankings. So week one would be...
Draft: 1,2,3,4,5,6
6,5,4,3,2,1
2,3,4,5,6,1
5,4,3,2,1,6
3,4,5,6,1,2
4,5,6,1,2,3

But if we wait and do it for 3 weeks after the draft, then there will be enough players in second draft that will still give 3rd and 4th picks some good players. I had last in the draft last egbdl I think and won sponger and h4B
User avatar
By Lee
#516561
Azela wrote:
Lee wrote:
Azela wrote:perhaps the fairest way would be to allow GMs to bid more than 9vp.
unfortunately not, GMs are big enough assholes to just overbid on players in order to not let opponents get them, which ultimately hurts the players most.
What I propose is allowing a player to be drafted for any amount VP, but the player will still be worth 9vp in-game. So 9vp would be the max in-game value.
Yes would work in theory, but not with LV, who ups team vps every single time someone cries that they are out. Team total vps were there for a reason to begin with, so that GMs can decide upon strategy - get best and top players from original draft and ignore fa drafts for good part or b) try to save on vps and hope that good FAs show up.
This league completely fcked it up for teams using option b) as total team vps were constantly upped.

I remember i even did some automated script once, where i calculated what av.team vp should be based on total vps of the league and then just removed the vps of new/old players if they got released and added an average 7 vp per old player and i think 4 per new if they were added to fa.

Anyways my point is that your idea is good, but it will never work league op just randomly keeps increasing team vps.
By lv
#516615
Lee wrote:
Azela wrote:
Lee wrote:
Azela wrote:perhaps the fairest way would be to allow GMs to bid more than 9vp.
unfortunately not, GMs are big enough assholes to just overbid on players in order to not let opponents get them, which ultimately hurts the players most.
What I propose is allowing a player to be drafted for any amount VP, but the player will still be worth 9vp in-game. So 9vp would be the max in-game value.
Yes would work in theory, but not with LV, who ups team vps every single time someone cries that they are out. Team total vps were there for a reason to begin with, so that GMs can decide upon strategy - get best and top players from original draft and ignore fa drafts for good part or b) try to save on vps and hope that good FAs show up.
This league completely fcked it up for teams using option b) as total team vps were constantly upped.

I remember i even did some automated script once, where i calculated what av.team vp should be based on total vps of the league and then just removed the vps of new/old players if they got released and added an average 7 vp per old player and i think 4 per new if they were added to fa.

Anyways my point is that your idea is good, but it will never work league op just randomly keeps increasing team vps.
VP wasn't upped randomly and I didn't up it when people cried. LOL

The squads had no VP to bid with, what was I supposed to do?
By Optimal
#516617
Imo things dont need to be that strict anymore but changing rules around during league is indeed pretty confusing. maybe workout everything before main season starts and after that no change unless rly necesary. Dropped players should not be allowed back in imo.
By lv
#516621
Optimal wrote:Imo things dont need to be that strict anymore but changing rules around during league is indeed pretty confusing. maybe workout everything before main season starts and after that no change unless rly necesary. Dropped players should not be allowed back in imo.
I know that last "roulette" thing I did was crazy, but 5/6 GMs wanted to try something new and weren't happy with the forum method. One of the GMs came up with roulette, and as random as it is, it's fair. I understand you don't want random. The one thing I did like about the system was that you could bid/bet on whatever player you want and not on the ones you don't want. If we do two or three drafts in a season, then you will have to take on players you don't want.

I will make league so we don't use FA Market and we have more than one draft.
User avatar
By Lee
#516622
lv wrote:
Optimal wrote:Imo things dont need to be that strict anymore but changing rules around during league is indeed pretty confusing. maybe workout everything before main season starts and after that no change unless rly necesary. Dropped players should not be allowed back in imo.
I know that last "roulette" thing I did was crazy, but 5/6 GMs wanted to try something new and weren't happy with the forum method. One of the GMs came up with roulette, and as random as it is, it's fair. I understand you don't want random. The one thing I did like about the system was that you could bid/bet on whatever player you want and not on the ones you don't want. If we do two or three drafts in a season, then you will have to take on players you don't want.

I will make league so we don't use FA Market and we have more than one draft.
I dont understand how getting players you dont want via FA draft is an issue. Most probably half of the original roster in first draft is people you dont care about /dont want/ plan on using. If you have more than 1 fa draft, it will ruin the idea behind it, because key here is the draft order and making it in reverse order. More fa drafts means = random draft picking order and that is nowhere near perfect solution. Although unlikely, it is quite possible that same GM can get 1st pick in main draft and all other drafts aswell.
By lv
#516624
Lee wrote:
lv wrote:
Optimal wrote:Imo things dont need to be that strict anymore but changing rules around during league is indeed pretty confusing. maybe workout everything before main season starts and after that no change unless rly necesary. Dropped players should not be allowed back in imo.
I know that last "roulette" thing I did was crazy, but 5/6 GMs wanted to try something new and weren't happy with the forum method. One of the GMs came up with roulette, and as random as it is, it's fair. I understand you don't want random. The one thing I did like about the system was that you could bid/bet on whatever player you want and not on the ones you don't want. If we do two or three drafts in a season, then you will have to take on players you don't want.

I will make league so we don't use FA Market and we have more than one draft.
I dont understand how getting players you dont want via FA draft is an issue. Most probably half of the original roster in first draft is people you dont care about /dont want/ plan on using. If you have more than 1 fa draft, it will ruin the idea behind it, because key here is the draft order and making it in reverse order. More fa drafts means = random draft picking order and that is nowhere near perfect solution. Although unlikely, it is quite possible that same GM can get 1st pick in main draft and all other drafts aswell.
You do have a point... everyone does. FA Market on the forum, if you time your browser is pretty much luck too. Take all the factors that Lee mentioned earlier about being closest to the server. But also, there is what type of connection you're using, might have a spike, could be a hop down and you can't connect at all... anything can happen. Nothing will ever be completely fair.
User avatar
By Lee
#516627
lv wrote:
Lee wrote:
lv wrote:
Optimal wrote:Imo things dont need to be that strict anymore but changing rules around during league is indeed pretty confusing. maybe workout everything before main season starts and after that no change unless rly necesary. Dropped players should not be allowed back in imo.
I know that last "roulette" thing I did was crazy, but 5/6 GMs wanted to try something new and weren't happy with the forum method. One of the GMs came up with roulette, and as random as it is, it's fair. I understand you don't want random. The one thing I did like about the system was that you could bid/bet on whatever player you want and not on the ones you don't want. If we do two or three drafts in a season, then you will have to take on players you don't want.

I will make league so we don't use FA Market and we have more than one draft.
I dont understand how getting players you dont want via FA draft is an issue. Most probably half of the original roster in first draft is people you dont care about /dont want/ plan on using. If you have more than 1 fa draft, it will ruin the idea behind it, because key here is the draft order and making it in reverse order. More fa drafts means = random draft picking order and that is nowhere near perfect solution. Although unlikely, it is quite possible that same GM can get 1st pick in main draft and all other drafts aswell.
You do have a point... everyone does. FA Market on the forum, if you time your browser is pretty much luck too. Take all the factors that Lee mentioned earlier about being closest to the server. But also, there is what type of connection you're using, might have a spike, could be a hop down and you can't connect at all... anything can happen. Nothing will ever be completely fair.
Yes exactly, this is why i suggest making it as fair as possible. And for me that is compensating the unluck you have in main draft (getting last picking order) with luck in fa draft (getting first picking order). It is very clear as well and everyone will understand the rule.
Only downside of this is the fact that FAs need to wait a bit longer to get into team (which can be somewhat solved if FAs are allowed to play on real random squadfreqs for preseason for example) and maybe some people who decide to join later up cannot anymore as no more fa. Which for me is actually a good thing. I really have fcking hated newbie vets who cannot otherwise get their online boner up, but have to witness GMs join a bidding war on them. I mean all of those vets who joined in FA apart from a very few knew egdl was going and could have joined for original draft, but oh no, that would have probably too much for their egos to handle.
FA was originally made to get a few ppl in who were not online when league was announced.
Scheduled pickups?

what happened to scheduling some pickups?

We can organize a fund, pull together a few grand […]

Rip e.g

Squadmatch anyone ?

420 is ready for anyone, even a pick up team.

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